Full Gold and Golden Base Xback

fong, the rim will never widen? i think i hv to agree with vic.

wrx

[cucumber]

Originally Posted by fong

So what you consider the hightlighted scale region of the pic below the frame of the scale? Only "yes" or "no" answer. No in between answer okie?. If not a frame, then what is it? You also call Victor but same name also cannot be bias okie?

Ah Fong, I think we all know that the aro, like most (all?) fish have the chameleon like ability to blend with their surroundings. Personally, I subscribe to the same school of thought as Ah Vic, i.e., the frame is the outer most rim of colour in the scale. The frame can thicken due to colour development. It can develop into a thick framed aro, a thin framed aro or a thick-thin framed aro.

A thick-thin framed aro is one with a thin frame but has a region of same coloured, but different tone, immediately after the outermost rim of colour. To put it in another way, the 2nd frame colour is of the same colour as the first, but its of a different shade. Usually, the outermost rim has the deepest colour development.

A thin framed aro is one where the 2nd frame colour is totally different from the 1st frame. This gives the aro a very dictinct boundary at the outermost rim of the scale. The opposite can be said of a thick framed aro. This kind of aro has a more "refined" look to it as compared to the thick framed one.

As for the pic that you have pointed out, I agree with Ah Vic that its not a very good choice due it its washed out colours because of its environment. But if I were to classify this aro based on its existing state in the pic, I would say that this is a thick framed aro. However, if we were to put this XB into a dark tank, the colours will deepen and a contrast may be formed such that this aro becomes a thick-thin framed aro. However, this aro can never be classified as a thin framed aro.

In aros as with all living things, I think it would not be right to subscribe to a one theory fits all kind of mentality. This is primarily due to the existence of anomalies. This can be said of aro colour development. Even if you can find 1 example that deviates from the "norm", all we can probably say is that this could be the exception rather than the rule (of thumb).

[fong]

HERE IS ANOTHER PIC.

SEE LABEL 1. THE COLOR PROGRESSES LEAVING THE FRAME BEHIND. SEE SIXTH LABEL, THE FRAME ARE QUITE VISIBLE.

SO CUMCUMBER, VIC AND WRX,

1) ARE THESE HIGHLIGHTED REGION CALLED FRAME BOH? YES OR NO ANSWER.

2) SEE LABLE ONE, THE COLOR PROGRESSES INWARD, AND QUITE OBVIOUS THE FRAME IN LABEL 1 NEVER DID. SO DID THE COLOR PROGRESSES WITHOUT THE FRAME WIDENING? YES OR NO ANSWER.

3) IF ANY OF YOUR ANSWER IS NO, THAN WHAT WHERE THESE HIGHLIGHTED REGION CALLED?

Originally Posted by vic

Can u use another pic as an example?? This pic as I have mentioned already is not an accurate way of showing frames as:

1. The fish is kept in a whitish environment as such based colour is washed out making the region between frames and base hard to determine.

2. U did not post an "after" or "before" pic of the fish...so how to say the frames did not widen??

There are plenty of pics in magazine and in the net....I am sure u can find others to be used as an example....or is it that u cant find any to support ur theory??

[jwhtan]

Best discussion I hv enjoyed so far. It shows just how even very experienced fishkeepers hv different point of views. I'll like to remind all members that many "facts" are being challenged all the time. This is a livestock and there's no absolute. Issit really the frame widening or the base colour developing to show a thicker frame ? Well, that's really contentious. This debate is really lively and I think we shd put it into the FAQ even though its not going to be conclusive.

Cheers

[cucumber]

Originally Posted by fong

HERE IS ANOTHER PIC.

SEE LABEL 1. THE COLOR PROGRESSES LEAVING THE FRAME BEHIND. SEE SIXTH LABEL, THE FRAME ARE QUITE VISIBLE.

SO CUMCUMBER, VIC AND WRX,

1) ARE THESE HIGHLIGHTED REGION CALLED FRAME BOH? YES OR NO ANSWER.

2) SEE LABLE ONE, THE COLOR PROGRESSES INWARD, AND QUITE OBVIOUS THE FRAME IN LABEL 1 NEVER DID. SO DID THE COLOR PROGRESSES WITHOUT THE FRAME WIDENING? YES OR NO ANSWER.

3) IF ANY OF YOUR ANSWER IS NO, THAN WHAT WHERE THESE HIGHLIGHTED REGION CALLED?

Walao eh. Ah fong, Can you choose better pics or not? This one I cannot see anything in detail lah.

Veri nice discussion guys keep it going

[fong]

Dont think I want to post anymore pics liao. Post one pic, someone say color wash out thats why the frame is visible. Find this very silly, whether wash out or not, does it matter? The pics i represented are not edited. It is what it is. Just because it proves my point and that makes it not appropriate? If the old theory really true, whatever pics I presented will not matter. Right?

Post lastest pic, as expected, ppl say not clear. Does it matter? No it doesn't. Why? ... because people sometimes choose to see what they want to see. Not what they see.

To debate on a theory that has been encrypted into the mind very difficult. Like that guy who said the earth was round when ppl though is was flat.. later kana killed by the church I think.

But I think I have achieved what I'm out to get.. to make the old theory contentious.

Originally Posted by cucumber

Walao eh. Ah fong, Can you choose better pics or not? This one I cannot see anything in detail lah.

[jwhtan]

Originally Posted by fong

Dont think I want to post anymore pics liao. Post one pic, someone say color wash out thats why the frame is visible. Find this very silly, whether wash out or not, does it matter? The pics i represented are not edited. It is what it is. Just because it proves my point and that makes it not appropriate? If the old theory really true, whatever pics I presented will not matter. Right?

Post lastest pic, as expected, ppl say not clear. Does it matter? No it doesn't. Why? ... because people sometimes choose to see what they want to see. Not what they see.

To debate on a theory that has been encrypted into the mind very difficult. Like that guy who said the earth was round when ppl though is was flat.. later kana killed by the church I think.

But I think I have achieved what I'm out to get.. to make the old theory contentious.

Fong, although I think ideas are already formed abt certain traits of aros, it is certainly refreshing to hv another perspective, whether its right or wrong, actually we all wun noe. But this hobby is dynamic, we've certainly seen young xbacks that hv blue/green base tat turned out very goldish , again whether tat qualifies as Full Gold then depends on the definition one has of "Full Gold" ... wat is determined today as "facts" may changed as the whole industry progresses. As it is, as far as aros go, we dun hv any gurus. We dun hv anyone who can be considered as an authority on it. And even as far as names are concerned, there's still a difference between S'pore, M'sia and Indonesia.

[fong]

Originally Posted by jwhtan

Fong, although I think ideas are already formed abt certain traits of aros, it is certainly refreshing to hv another perspective, whether its right or wrong, actually we all wun noe. But this hobby is dynamic, we've certainly seen young xbacks that hv blue/green base tat turned out very goldish , again whether tat qualifies as Full Gold then depends on the definition one has of "Full Gold" ... wat is determined today as "facts" may changed as the whole industry progresses. As it is, as far as aros go, we dun hv any gurus. We dun hv anyone who can be considered as an authority on it. And even as far as names are concerned, there's still a difference between S'pore, M'sia and Indonesia.

John,

You are one person that always stay impartial and always keep an open mind about things. Not only this thread.. but many others too. This is really one thing I really look upon to you as a person. No wonder you are a moderator of this forum. Well done John.

Originally Posted by fong

Dont think I want to post anymore pics liao. Post one pic, someone say color wash out thats why the frame is visible. Find this very silly, whether wash out or not, does it matter? The pics i represented are not edited. It is what it is. Just because it proves my point and that makes it not appropriate? If the old theory really true, whatever pics I presented will not matter. Right?

Post lastest pic, as expected, ppl say not clear. Does it matter? No it doesn't. Why? ... because people sometimes choose to see what they want to see. Not what they see.

To debate on a theory that has been encrypted into the mind very difficult. Like that guy who said the earth was round when ppl though is was flat.. later kana killed by the church I think.

But I think I have achieved what I'm out to get.. to make the old theory contentious.

heheh fong, i know it is always good to hv new thought, to challenge old thought, but, u need "fact" to sustance ur new theory.

there r so many "new" theory" in the market ( some r old nowaday liao ), chilli, blood, pahang gold, watever this or that, when the new theory became not very convincing, the answer is? hard to find pure breed liao.

no offence fong, i'm not against u, just that i think the pic u post not convincing enough, the first "full gold" u post is with yellow light, then yr last pic not clear at all.

to say the earth is round needs a long way, needs to really convince people with fact. if, do u think that person who found that the earth is round does't hv persistance & just "wat said hv been said" i shall stop, could succeed?

& of course, to say the earth is round needs fact.

wrx