When or Why do reds turn RED?

John, dun mind me adding my comments in blue:

whether its a gold, a red , a green or for tat matter, any other species like multi colours for cichlids, these all come sdown to the natural pigmentation of the fish .. of which in this case for a red aro, it is red ... or rather deep orange ...

it is just like us, humans .... whether we are yellow, brown, black, white watever ... it is due to pigmentation ...

this is predetermined by the composition of the chromatophores...the shifts in the ratio will cause a change in colors...from yellow to orange to red

well, kagemaru is, in a way, right tat fish dun differentiate colours ... but this non-differentiation of colours by sight do not equate to non-differentiation of colours by lateral lines ... fishes feel rather than see ....

when a red turn red, it could be several reasons ...

one , reaches maturity ...

This is commonly referred to a internal stimulants for growth, when teh red reached a certain age, their puberty stage will stimulate diff percentage of hormones as part of their growth stage

two, manifesting its colours to show its compatriots he is the dominant one

This can only be observed by commkeepers who have constantly monitor their reds...normally the alpha of the comm will have brilliant colors amidst its kind

three, atttracting opposite sex for mating

Sexually enhanced hormones are also excreted for color purpose...Personally I feels that adult reds on sexual maturity will tend to display a diff set of colors...esp during a particular season of the year

four, under stress ... some may be wondering abt this point four under stress ... but fishes under stress do manifest their colours too ... its like trying to protect themselves as they are not sure of its surroundings ...

This is rarely observed but possible cos as in some cases a different tonal would signalled to the other aggresssive reds to stay out of their area...but I had only seen a strengthening of the base color and not the rim color when mine reds are stressed out...they will kinda stay dark and camouflage with the background and stay out of trouble

five, stable and developing well .... this is wat most of us want to achieve ... a red tat turns red due to stable water parameters, suitable nutrients and a condusive living environment ...

Definitely true, cos stable environment allows the proper settling of coloration cycle and if in sync they should mature in color and cover in coats

I hope my input gives room for debate

[jwhtan]

Originally Posted by Fire87

any insights on why the natural pigmentation has evolved to be the way it is? like why that fish we call a SR has evolved to have red pigmentations instead or gold, and why XBs evolved to have that gold pigmentation?

why/how reds turn red is maybe step 2 of the process. would be interesting if we can gather some insights on why in the first place the pigmentations have evolved that way. it's an impossible qn to answer, i guess... but i'm sure many are capable of an educated guess

i suppose this part has to go all the way to jurrassic era since scientists believe the bonytonque is a survivor of the jurrassic age ... u r right, tat at our level, this is an impossible question to answer ... its just like asking why the indians are black and the chinese are yellow ... i guess its the sun, the water, the environment, the climate, the heat ... tat makes each species develop to wat they become today

[fong]

hi john,

dont quite agree that fish dont differentiate colors... laterline senses only vibration.. not color. the sharks are known to be less attracted to certain hues. so they do differentiate colors.

Originally Posted by jwhtan

whether its a gold, a red , a green or for tat matter, any other species like multi colours for cichlids, these all come sdown to the natural pigmentation of the fish .. of which in this case for a red aro, it is red ... or rather deep orange ...

it is just like us, humans .... whether we are yellow, brown, black, white watever ... it is due to pigmentation ...

well, kagemaru is, in a way, right tat fish dun differentiate colours ... but this non-differentiation of colours by sight do not equate to non-differentiation of colours by lateral lines ... fishes feel rather than see ....

when a red turn red, it could be several reasons ...

one , reaches maturity ...

two, manifesting its colours to show its compatriots he is the dominant one

three, atttracting opposite sex for mating

four, under stress ... some may be wondering abt this point four under stress ... but fishes under stress do manifest their colours too ... its like trying to protect themselves as they are not sure of its surroundings ...

five, stable and developing well .... this is wat most of us want to achieve ... a red tat turns red due to stable water parameters, suitable nutrients and a condusive living environment ...

I hope my input gives room for debate

Originally Posted by Petshopboys

If i'm a adult red...
Why i wan to turn red? TO attract partner for mating and have family loh....In the wild, aro are paired up naturally when it mature (mature mean genes stable) so the offspring is better
Plus in the wild, there's abunance of mineral in the water hence good for aro

redness comes with a stimulation of the sexual hormones or pheromons tat we are commonly referred to...its like the attractiveness of a female or male human...all will have tat inate pheromones at work

Minerals depends on which types...not all rivers will see red red aros...some are just brown my pal

[jwhtan]

Originally Posted by fong

hi john,

dont quite agree that fish dont differentiate colors... laterline senses only vibration.. not color. the sharks are known to be less attracted to certain hues. so they do differentiate colors.

point taken ... u know i'm always very open to alternative views

[jwhtan]

Originally Posted by kagemaru

John, dun mind me adding my comments in blue:

dun mind at all .... i like to put across my views in very simple layman terms ... its great for u to further explain ur views

Originally Posted by Fire87

any insights on why the natural pigmentation has evolved to be the way it is? like why that fish we call a SR has evolved to have red pigmentations instead or gold, and why XBs evolved to have that gold pigmentation?

why/how reds turn red is maybe step 2 of the process. would be interesting if we can gather some insights on why in the first place the pigmentations have evolved that way. it's an impossible qn to answer, i guess... but i'm sure many are capable of an educated guess

Taken out of my master scripts:

The color of a fish is commonly used for these purpose:

Communication
Identification
Camouflage
Defence
Mimicry

Let me try to answer the Gold = Gold question first...

Pigments: Commonly known as chromatophores

Golds have more of iridophores ( consists of a layer of plates with crystals)

its like a prism...it will show the light scattering effect of a prism...movements and placement of these plates and crystals will create a "multi-directional reflective effect"...which we view as metallic colors...

the composition of xanthophores (yellow color) and leucophores (light scattering effect) with abundance of iridophores will create a gold surface

Reds on the other hand uses the following chromatophores:
melanophores (melanin)
xanthophores (yellow)
erythrophores (red)
cyanophores (blue)

if a red appears yellow it shows the abundance of xanthophores whereas a purplish red will have a higher composition or percentage of cyanophores...hence teh certain shades of reds that we observe

Didnt want to put this out...but it will be able to explain the composition of colors

Originally Posted by jwhtan

point taken ... u know i'm always very open to alternative views

John u are not wrong in saying lateral lines are able to ID the better color reds...let me try to explain why:

lateral lines works in similar manner a the bats...they send off a "wave" to detect the movement of a particular object...tats primary...but the lateral line is able to detect the finer details of this object such as the color intensity

Why?

Because the diff color intensity requires a different coating of chromatophores although minute to the human eyes, a differnt color would be depicted as a differnt surface toning or texture within the individual scales on the red...a red with lousy colors will have diff composition or thickness of colors on their scales...

Just like when we see a chiobu, the first thing comes to our eyes is the overall figure...then we go to the details such as the skin tone, the vital statistics, the clothes she had, the purfume she put on, the accessories she had, the sway of her stance...all this is encompass inside the action of "Beo chabo"

Hope I explain it clear enuff

Originally Posted by Petshopboys

brown??

yes...not all reds in rivers are red...some are only brown

they will turn red once u change their environment, cos their protective coat is taken out and no need to fear for their predators

[Fire87]

Originally Posted by jwhtan

i suppose this part has to go all the way to jurrassic era since scientists believe the bonytonque is a survivor of the jurrassic age ... u r right, tat at our level, this is an impossible question to answer ... its just like asking why the indians are black and the chinese are yellow ... i guess its the sun, the water, the environment, the climate, the heat ... tat makes each species develop to wat they become today

errr i think we already have the answer as to why caucasians are white, indians are black. it's something to do with UV light and so... again, it's through evolution. we may all have started off the same colour, just that people evolved over time.

the skin color theory is something like, africans given their climate will need lotsa protection against the Sun, hence their skin color gives them the protection. whereas caucasians have adapted to be white because their climate has less sun, hence their skin evolved to be more receptive to the sun's light, which is essential for survival. I may have phrased in incorrectly, but it's more or less that.

evolution happens for a reason, like bro fong said, it's always for survival.

so why is a red Red?