URGENT..Warts on Arrowana scales - Page 2

16-09-2002, 11:14 PM

Thanks Nauzer,and all the guys,
Today i when to the pet store and got some rock salt, and added 150grms Seem that all the fish love it!!!!! yeah kinda cool .....kekekeke,anyways Thanks for your image Nauzer,Yeah i think it`s the same..but i got it on the scale,they are all in line but only one side of the fish!!!!!!!!!weirded..... the other side is perfect....couple of them(lumps) look like have been pop and have a dent(hole),now the scale seems to be ok but just have a hole on it! i think this things spreads...just that now it`s moving to the tail,the shape of the lump is round,
So now i just have to wait and see if the rock salt will help the poor ARO.

I will keep you GUYS Updated!!!!!!!

17-09-2002, 12:46 AM

Hi Vee!

Just wanted to make sure about this. How much salt did you add into the tank? .3% should be enough. Also, salt is not going to work and fight this particulay disease directly (if lymph is our main suspect). Don't keep your hopes to high. Instead, salt will help your fish osmoregulate. Better condition for the fish means better immune system to remit the infection.

I think all our advise are in the same direction, including Nauzer's.

Let the pathogen run its cycle. Just keep your tank parameters good and keep those water changes coming. Give your fish excellent and varied diet and you wouldn't have to worry about secondary infections.

Nauzer, that bump looks like the lesions on my cichs, but were just more pink. I diagnosed their case as lymphocystis and let them be without medications. I believe it took about a month or a month and a half before they cleared out - completely. Although I would have to admit that I didn't maintain their tank as religiously as I had before when the outbreak took place, I still believe their infection were due to poor water quality, as I 'm not feeding them any live feeder.

Goodluck guys!

17-09-2002, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by vee2

couple of them(lumps) look like have been pop and have a dent(hole),now the scale seems to be ok but just have a hole on it! i think this things spreads...just that now it`s moving to the tail,the shape of the lump is round,
So now i just have to wait and see if the rock salt will help the poor ARO.
I will keep you GUYS Updated!!!!!!!

Hi vee, just a pre-caution, keep your options open. Because from what you have described.....about having a hole and the thing moving to the tail......it does sound more like the ich parasite. As far as i know, lymphosystis should remain relatively stable in the manner of being isolated in the same location.
The ich parasite works in the manner of growing and sucking off the nutrients in the cells of your aro and when its mature, it will break out, begin to multiply by the thousands and thereafter search for a new host as a carrier. This process is takes place within one week if you water temp is between 25-30 degrees. And as they say, when they break out of the body/ fins, during the free swimming stage, its the only time to kill the parasite. So observe very carefully.
Take a look here:
http://www.2cah.com/pandora/Disease.html

Emps, you know something, my cichlids had them too. But i do agree with you....patience and close observance is the key to possible recovery. I even started a log book to record all forms of observations and record tank parameter adjustments.

What do you think of a diet of frogs, sw and mp during this period? safe?

thanks!

17-09-2002, 06:25 AM

Live feeders are good, with the exception of feeder fishes (you know my stand on those babies

). Just avoid overfeeding and they should be fine. My choice not to feed live on my cichlids is more financial than anything else.

With regards to Vee, I would rule out Ich as the lesions are rather big at 3mm and the coloration is still indicative of lymph or similar type of virus.

18-09-2002, 02:28 PM

hi emp and nauzer and the boys......
thanks emp for the site,i don`t think this lump is lch,it`s realli weird,and i dun think i can take a image it`s kinda small to view it,see what i can do,and
Today i check my PH it is on 7.0,and did water change again 20lt,then added 50g of rock salt,Now i think the lump have stop!!!!! the white stuff have gone, BUT! It stilll leaves hole to the scale,So I guess i still maintain the tank and have to monitor it just abit more,I hope and cross my fingers,this type of disease
will go away soon.........i will keep you guy posted...

18-09-2002, 03:00 PM

Hi guys,
sorry for not keeping up-to-date...

firstly, thanks nauzer for sharing the pics n thoughts!
well, just by looking at the photos, it's really hard to tell. the middle bit of the lesion looks chalky n white n opaque n raised. now this could very much b lymphocystis.
on the other hand, most of the other parts of the lesion, around the periphery is rather translucent looking. this could b caused by heaps of bugs, from protozoans to trematodes to bacteria to fungus.......

remember, lymphocystis lesions r ALWAYS raised and pearly white looking. they r most commonly found on the fins.
i wouldn't say they r very common, much less seen than ich n other skin parasites that cause cloudy-opague patches..

. anyway, the rule with skin lesions is NOT TO TRUST YOUR EYES.....they can vary a lot grossly. often, u'll b wrong just by making a diagnosis based on gross appearance. exceptions do exisit of course, esp with ich, anchor worms, fish lice etc. ich for e/g causes characteristic white spot lesions ranging from 0.1 to 1 mm in size. However, most other skin problems overlap with each other in gross appearance.

anyway, that's why we always do skin scrapes to confirm a skin problem. this is often not available to aquarists, so a treatment trial is often used..i.e. treat with salt baths--which kills some bugs. if it recovers, yup, we know most likely it had bugs which were susceptible to salt( most skin protozoans, flukes, and fungus)....if it doesn;'t improve, we know it's likely to b something resistant to salt baths( e.g ich, lymphocystis, tumours, TB etc )
so. doing salt treatments help to NARROW our list of possibilities.

vee2, r these lesions white n pearly n very very thick looking, or r they kinda transparent--slightly opague.....the fact that it sort of responded to the salt, n leaves a 'dimple' as u;ve suggested doesn;t support our diagnosis of lymphocystis.

can u pls varify the following:
how big again?? have a close look again bro. measure it again...about 3 mm u reckon?

how raised is it? how many mm?

are the bumps discrete n well defined?? is there a very sharp n clear margin between the bump n normal skin? or is there a blurr-fuzzy area-indiscrete lesion??

check out these lymphocystis photos:
http://www.dainet.de/bfafi/ifo/Cuxha...mphocystis.htm
http://www.ian-graham.co.uk/fish/New...um/i_virus.htm

notice how opaque n white these lesions r??
they r also very well demacated from normal tissue. very clear sharp margins....they don't merge diffusely into surrounding tissue.
also, they r raised n BIG!
and when u get heaps, they tend to coalese n fuse together to give cauliflower-like growths.

20-09-2002, 02:58 PM

Hi Guys,
just tested my nitrate(NO3) i use the Sera brand,and my water condition is 10mg/l so is kinda average nitrate level,
and still doin 40l of water change and 0.3% of rock salt,PH 7
and now it`s seem like those things has gone but! but still leave a dent on his scale.
I think the salt is working ........ and at least i can tell that the white stuff have gone but still have to see if the hole will recover by it self!!!!!!
Thanks GUYS
will still keep you all posted and next time ppl might have this same problem we know how to kill it,
So i guess i`ll be the test pilot!!!!!

23-09-2002, 05:22 PM

hi guys!

I would like to say thanks to VETDUCK for his expert hands in carrying out a surface scrape (for a sample of the bacteria) on the 'lump' on the pectorial fins of my aro.
After his diagnosis under the microscope, he might be able to disclose the kind of bacteria present and thereafter administer the right treatment accordingly.

Notice in the attached picture that the lump on the pectorial fins has grown slightly bigger than before. The aro has recovered very well after the minor operation.

Will keep this thread updated with findings shortly.....

24-09-2002, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nauzer
hi guys!

I would like to say thanks to VETDUCK for his expert hands in carrying out a surface scrape (for a sample of the bacteria) on the 'lump' on the pectorial fins of my aro.
After his diagnosis under the microscope, he might be able to disclose the kind of bacteria present and thereafter administer the right treatment accordingly.

Notice in the attached picture that the lump on the pectorial fins has grown slightly bigger than before. The aro has recovered very well after the minor operation.

Will keep this thread updated with findings shortly.....

You're most welcome. Don't thank me too soon. Let me stain it & have a look under the microscope first. Hopefully the sample taken was adequate. Will up you updated.

16-09-2002, 11:14 PM	#11
vee2 Guest Posts: n/a	SICK ARO Thanks Nauzer,and all the guys, Today i when to the pet store and got some rock salt, and added 150grms Seem that all the fish love it!!!!! yeah kinda cool .....kekekeke,anyways Thanks for your image Nauzer,Yeah i think it`s the same..but i got it on the scale,they are all in line but only one side of the fish!!!!!!!!!weirded..... the other side is perfect....couple of them(lumps) look like have been pop and have a dent(hole),now the scale seems to be ok but just have a hole on it! i think this things spreads...just that now it`s moving to the tail,the shape of the lump is round, So now i just have to wait and see if the rock salt will help the poor ARO. I will keep you GUYS Updated!!!!!!!

23-09-2002, 05:22 PM	#18
Nauzer Guest Posts: n/a	hi guys! I would like to say thanks to VETDUCK for his expert hands in carrying out a surface scrape (for a sample of the bacteria) on the 'lump' on the pectorial fins of my aro. After his diagnosis under the microscope, he might be able to disclose the kind of bacteria present and thereafter administer the right treatment accordingly. Notice in the attached picture that the lump on the pectorial fins has grown slightly bigger than before. The aro has recovered very well after the minor operation. Will keep this thread updated with findings shortly..... Last edited by Nauzer; 31-12-2006 at 07:40 PM.

17-09-2002, 12:46 AM	#12
emps Guest Posts: n/a	Hi Vee! Just wanted to make sure about this. How much salt did you add into the tank? .3% should be enough. Also, salt is not going to work and fight this particulay disease directly (if lymph is our main suspect). Don't keep your hopes to high. Instead, salt will help your fish osmoregulate. Better condition for the fish means better immune system to remit the infection. I think all our advise are in the same direction, including Nauzer's. Let the pathogen run its cycle. Just keep your tank parameters good and keep those water changes coming. Give your fish excellent and varied diet and you wouldn't have to worry about secondary infections. Nauzer, that bump looks like the lesions on my cichs, but were just more pink. I diagnosed their case as lymphocystis and let them be without medications. I believe it took about a month or a month and a half before they cleared out - completely. Although I would have to admit that I didn't maintain their tank as religiously as I had before when the outbreak took place, I still believe their infection were due to poor water quality, as I 'm not feeding them any live feeder. Goodluck guys!

17-09-2002, 06:25 AM	#14
emps Guest Posts: n/a	Live feeders are good, with the exception of feeder fishes (you know my stand on those babies ). Just avoid overfeeding and they should be fine. My choice not to feed live on my cichlids is more financial than anything else. With regards to Vee, I would rule out Ich as the lesions are rather big at 3mm and the coloration is still indicative of lymph or similar type of virus.

18-09-2002, 02:28 PM	#15
vee2 Guest Posts: n/a	hi emp and nauzer and the boys...... thanks emp for the site,i don`t think this lump is lch,it`s realli weird,and i dun think i can take a image it`s kinda small to view it,see what i can do,and Today i check my PH it is on 7.0,and did water change again 20lt,then added 50g of rock salt,Now i think the lump have stop!!!!! the white stuff have gone, BUT! It stilll leaves hole to the scale,So I guess i still maintain the tank and have to monitor it just abit more,I hope and cross my fingers,this type of disease will go away soon.........i will keep you guy posted...

18-09-2002, 03:00 PM	#16
Isna Guest Posts: n/a	Hi guys, sorry for not keeping up-to-date... firstly, thanks nauzer for sharing the pics n thoughts! well, just by looking at the photos, it's really hard to tell. the middle bit of the lesion looks chalky n white n opaque n raised. now this could very much b lymphocystis. on the other hand, most of the other parts of the lesion, around the periphery is rather translucent looking. this could b caused by heaps of bugs, from protozoans to trematodes to bacteria to fungus....... remember, lymphocystis lesions r ALWAYS raised and pearly white looking. they r most commonly found on the fins. i wouldn't say they r very common, much less seen than ich n other skin parasites that cause cloudy-opague patches.. . anyway, the rule with skin lesions is NOT TO TRUST YOUR EYES.....they can vary a lot grossly. often, u'll b wrong just by making a diagnosis based on gross appearance. exceptions do exisit of course, esp with ich, anchor worms, fish lice etc. ich for e/g causes characteristic white spot lesions ranging from 0.1 to 1 mm in size. However, most other skin problems overlap with each other in gross appearance. anyway, that's why we always do skin scrapes to confirm a skin problem. this is often not available to aquarists, so a treatment trial is often used..i.e. treat with salt baths--which kills some bugs. if it recovers, yup, we know most likely it had bugs which were susceptible to salt( most skin protozoans, flukes, and fungus)....if it doesn;'t improve, we know it's likely to b something resistant to salt baths( e.g ich, lymphocystis, tumours, TB etc ) so. doing salt treatments help to NARROW our list of possibilities. vee2, r these lesions white n pearly n very very thick looking, or r they kinda transparent--slightly opague.....the fact that it sort of responded to the salt, n leaves a 'dimple' as u;ve suggested doesn;t support our diagnosis of lymphocystis. can u pls varify the following: how big again?? have a close look again bro. measure it again...about 3 mm u reckon? how raised is it? how many mm? are the bumps discrete n well defined?? is there a very sharp n clear margin between the bump n normal skin? or is there a blurr-fuzzy area-indiscrete lesion?? check out these lymphocystis photos: http://www.dainet.de/bfafi/ifo/Cuxha...mphocystis.htm http://www.ian-graham.co.uk/fish/New...um/i_virus.htm notice how opaque n white these lesions r?? they r also very well demacated from normal tissue. very clear sharp margins....they don't merge diffusely into surrounding tissue. also, they r raised n BIG! and when u get heaps, they tend to coalese n fuse together to give cauliflower-like growths.

20-09-2002, 02:58 PM	#17
vee2 Guest Posts: n/a	Hi Guys, just tested my nitrate(NO3) i use the Sera brand,and my water condition is 10mg/l so is kinda average nitrate level, and still doin 40l of water change and 0.3% of rock salt,PH 7 and now it`s seem like those things has gone but! but still leave a dent on his scale. I think the salt is working ........ and at least i can tell that the white stuff have gone but still have to see if the hole will recover by it self!!!!!! Thanks GUYS will still keep you all posted and next time ppl might have this same problem we know how to kill it, So i guess i`ll be the test pilot!!!!!

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