The deluded concept about coconut juice to reduce pH

Originally Posted by zihao

Got what you meant bro. I think I had a habbit of assuming that the others do regular water changes or are at least very confident of their water parameters like myself without any need to check it with those kits.

Again you misunderstood. I never said that anyone needs to keep checking their water. All along I have been saying that when something is amiss, the water should be checked with test kits to see if they have gone haywire. If you don't fix the source, then problems just come one after another.

The test kits we are talking about is used to test the water, it is not a medicine not a disease checker. Obviously you need to see the symptoms to determine the sickness, however, you cannot see the symptoms to see the water.

Originally Posted by WanWan

Well said.
Simplicity is bliss.

Using test kits is actually in keeping with the simplicity concept. If the water is fine, the fish can fight disease better using its own immune system.

Originally Posted by zihao

Yap. Great. Thanks. What kind of fish are you keeping now? A little off topic but better than opening a new thread. It has been some time since I come back to this forum.

Thought you ask. You didn't? Understandable coming from you.

Originally Posted by zihao

Fraserlo, thanks for taking your time to type that, though I welcome you to talk about those in your own thread. Perhaps it would be great that you can read my earlier post.
Talking about test kits again, most would only use them when they see abnormal symptoms. My point is parallel to what Vetduck has said: "symptoms are more important to arrive at a diagnosis than test kits" and he is correct too about the signalment & history.

You said: "when you can see with your own eyes, your fish is probably half dead."
Indeed, that is what I have been saying. Most would only conduct tests prior to seeing symptoms. That is the irony that I have been talking about. Perhaps you can read my posts again. Dont get agitated or personal that you skip those important lines. I think I have put it across correctly as Vetduck interpreted it correctly.

You know I felt sorry for vetduck when you quoted him. He's not making this point when he said that! You reaped his words and bend it your way. That much about you.

Personal and in your bewilderment?!? What, Don Vito Corleone stuff now huh. Urgh... you are a waste of my time.

Hi Vincent,
Which one would you put 1st in the observation list? Symptom->Test Readings->etc or the other way around? Talking about mainly priority not importance.

Hi Vetduck,

Yap. I remember Kenny told me something similar why an archive is not preferred.
Still, many are doing self diagnosis and self medication with respect to the fish.

Is there any reason why the board is setup specifically for Aros? Do you think an archive with pictures be good, in the sense that the troubled owner need not wait for a valid input?

Yap, it is a matter of them being there when you need it. With regular water change and husbandry, there should not be too much use of them till unexpected events when you need it. And yes, about the accuracy, you and me know the answer to it...

Originally Posted by lbei

Again you misunderstood. I never said that anyone needs to keep checking their water. All along I have been saying that when something is amiss, the water should be checked with test kits to see if they have gone haywire. If you don't fix the source, then problems just come one after another.

The test kits we are talking about is used to test the water, it is not a medicine not a disease checker. Obviously you need to see the symptoms to determine the sickness, however, you cannot see the symptoms to see the water.

Originally Posted by lbei

Using test kits is actually in keeping with the simplicity concept. If the water is fine, the fish can fight disease better using its own immune system.

Hi lbei,

Sorry though you have not been misunderstood. I am quoting the trend in which hobbyist become obssessed and scream when some readings are just a little bit off. Though I know you understand there is no need for that. Indeed, I think I have been saying repeatedly: Symptoms observation first, then go into testings. But if you know you have been doing your "homework", then one can skip these tests (water parameters).

No, I bet to differ as symptoms can also tell the water condition. (The same goes for test kits but I should emphasize the fact that most would just see symptoms first, know something is wrong, then check for abnormalities.)

About simplicity, we can forget about everything and do regular water change. Hehe.

Fraserlo,

I should sometimes skip quotation as it just lengthen the page with repeated content. (Remind me if I forget...)

I think my question was simple and straightforward - "What do you keep?"
Though I am still puzzled when you answered "I'd like to tell you how I handle some 200 Kg size halibuts and stripping a couple of hundred salmon in the glacier mountains of montana. ", which isn't in context of my question. That is the part that you might want a new thread on it which I was refering to. Understandable coming from you...

I dont want to say this, but you are shallow. Look at all the exchanges here, lbei, vetduck, Kenny etc, no one is emotional and personal. All going well and not out to hit but share. And from your tone, it is! -undeniable. Dont waste my time replying to you too if you are just dumping empty echos into this discussion. We will appreciate...

Perhaps you have difficulty understanding these long paragraphs and you probably good in 1 liners. You have been twisting the words all around or is it they just look foreign.

"He's not making this point when he said that! You reaped his words and bend it your way. That much about you." I quoted partially from your reply. Tell me how it got bend then...

Vetduck, if there is a problem quoting or quoting wrongly from what you said, do let me know too. If not, perhaps this fellow forumer can justify his accusation.

We are all here to share information & hopefully we all come out wiser. No need to get personal or emotional. I don't need accusations & arguements on this forum. There is usually no black & white to any topic. Whether someone likes to use test kits or not is their individual preference.

It's been a while sinced we had an interesting discuss as this. I would like forumers to go away with a better understanding or the importance or history, clinical signs & supportive tests. At least the next time they have a problem, they can better appreciate & provide history, signalment & etc, instead of just saying, "My fish as got a red spot on it's tail, what is it & how to cure?" We get too many of such postings & there are times when I can't be bother to reply, because you just can't identify the problem with such vague information.

So come into this forum with an open mind & we should all agree to disagree. If one can't do that, then don't post. It's as simple as that.

Originally Posted by zihao

Hi Vincent,
Which one would you put 1st in the observation list? Symptom->Test Readings->etc or the other way around? Talking about mainly priority not importance.

If you are talking about steps to work up a case. History taking definitely has to be first on the list. Without history it's difficult to piece together all other information.

After a good history as been taken, examination of the fish can then be carried out. Any tests to be carried out would come later. Often times, examination isn't just restricted to the fish. It's important also to check the environment, eg filter system, water change routine, feeding routine etc. It's usually an environmental problem leading to a fish problem. Which is why I prefer to do a housecall than for people to bring their fishes to the clinic. That way I can do a more thorough check of the environment.

Yap, good one there Vetduck.

There are tonnes of postings all over with vague information though the pinned thread listed the steps, hope they can read our discussion too to know why it is good to follow as pinned. Really happy to discuss so much with you all, though it has been stained by one and only. This was another reason when I left the forum sometime back when someone just comes in and break the information flow.

Indeed, we have been on this subject for some time. Should we go into discussion on fish diet? Kenny, Vetduck or any others, any comments on that? Feel free to contribute constructive ideas, but if you are here to flame, shoo...

Yap, almost forgotten about that. History is definitely the first. And so many other background information to be collected.

By the way, how do I address you Vetduck? At least I know the other is Kenny.

Should we vote on something interesting too (2nd new topic):
Most possible/frequent causes of droop eyes ->
1. Genetics
2. Environment
3. Diet/Food
4. Others