Full Gold and Golden Base Xback

[fong]

If I am not wrong, it mentioned 1st scale frame and 2nd scale frame, and also the base scale right ? So now you are saying beside the 1st Scale Frame, (which I believe is the scale frame I mentioned, now he invented a 2nd Scale Frame (i believe this is your so call widening of scale frame)? Maybe you should come out a book and mentioned about a third scale frame.... or maybe a fourth one.... I also got the book... but honestly I never read. So dont know exactly what else the book mentioned but from what you posted, it mentioned a 2nd scale frame.

More and more terminology liao. So now there are 2 scale frames loh. Also you ever read the legend book ?, it also mentioned thick frame aros is also call no frame aro boh? All these books all read before, for bedtime only, dont take it too seriously.

When I read all these books, I just go for pictoral and see for myself, all these fanciful termology I leave it in the book. But I do enjoy the farm visit portion.

All this frame progression are just color formation. They just term it as they like. A frame is a structure. Not a representation of color. When ppl translate it into engllsh, it read SCALE FRAME, but if it just talking color separation, maybe should translate into SCALE COLOR BORDER.

These are just normal people like you and me. Dont think they have PHD of any sort to support their claim.

Originally Posted by vic

For those who know chinese...this is taken from "Ever Changing...." book

fong, i did't know when farm tells u this is a full gold xback, it will become full gold, which farm/dealer could assure that?

i hv to agree with vic, lighting play a very important role when u shoot yr "full gold" pic, could u turn off the YELLOW light?

anyway, i think yr theory is quite misleading, people tell u, farm tell u, this is wat base, wat full, it will become wat, sigh.....
wrx

[fong]

Originally Posted by wrx

fong, i did't know when farm tells u this is a full gold xback, it will become full gold, which farm/dealer could assure that?

anyway, i think yr theory quite misleading, people tell u, farm tell u, this is wat base, wat full, it will become wat, sigh.......
wrx

Hi Goh,

Guess you read the wrong thread posted by another member. I didn't post that statement. Someone else did.

There is the statement by Bro Vic,
"Not the case...when farms say this is a gold based aro....then it should not have any other base colour beside gold. Based colour of the fish cannot change."


Here is my reply to Bro Figo.. read it as you will see what I meant.
"bro figo,
The first pic is actually a Electric Blue. But take a look again, this is actually a gold based aro. So the name doesnt mean a thing. Judge by the actual fish itself. Blue base fish looks dirty when adult. See the pic vic posted. Gold based young fish has very light based color."

Another example :

One bro asked this question :
"
bro,
just to check with u, if the cert stated as full malaysia gold, is the first pic right??? right now seeing some blue base on the scale, when it grow to adulthood, the lbue base will turn gold right??? tkssss

My answer to his question is show me a pic.

Anyway, you can check these out, all traceable to this thread.

[fong]

Originally Posted by wrx

i hv to agree with vic, lighting play a very important role when u shoot yr "full gold" pic, could u turn off the YELLOW light?

wrx

Hi again,

Didn't answer to your other question. The fish now in the pond laio. Have to agree that different light different effect. Also to add different background also different effect. But not to worry, the reason why I post these two pics is because they are in the comm tank together. Same light and back ground. You can see the intensity of each individual and estimate the progression by comparing it under the same condition. Think this is the most accurate way of comparing... again, as I've mentioned, the fish has to have gold/yellow pigmentation inorder to reflect the "gold yellow" color. Example, you take a green aro and throw it into the same tank the green will not be gold tiow boh? I have pics of a green aro in that same tank, can show u want i meant if you want.

I only stating facts... no mean offend. Pardon me .

[fong]

Here is what I meant :

A green under the same comm tank....

Originally Posted by fong

Hi again,

Didn't answer to your other question. The fish now in the pond laio. Have to agree that different light different effect. Also to add different background also different effect. But not to worry, the reason why I post these two pics is because they are in the comm tank together. Same light and back ground. You can see the intensity of each individual and estimate the progression by comparing it under the same condition. Think this is the most accurate way of comparing... again, as I've mentioned, the fish has to have gold/yellow pigmentation inorder to reflect the "gold yellow" color. Example, you take a green aro and throw it into the same tank the green will not be gold tiow boh? I have pics of a green aro in that same tank, can show u want i meant if you want.

I only stating facts... no mean offend. Pardon me .

[fong]

I dont want to repeat all over again. I show u a clear pic. The pic shows where frame is. It did not widen. The gold cover over it as it progresses inwards. Also, if u look at RTG. Those with upper half scale no color and lower half scale got color region, u can see the frame quite easily. Those without gold color region the frame has a slight different tone from the base. The lower half color progresses inwards, the frame never thickens.

Originally Posted by vic

I always read books and magazine with a pinch of salt and a open mind....but at least I dont invent new theories...this is the 1st time I have come across such claim!

FYI its not my theory....everything that I have stated are discussed and written in books many many years already. e.g. Ever changing of Asian Aro and Legend I & II...these books are over 10 yrs already! Pioneers like Steven of Amazon and T801 aunty have used terms like thin and thick framed even before I keep guppy, but I have not come across ppl talking about XB changing its base colour or even to the extent that the thick framed XB pic I have posted becomes a thin framed fish to u! ...

(I think we should leave chilli and blood red out of this its irrelevant in this discussion)

Can u back up ur claim?? Where did u read it?




Of cuz not.....if what u wrote above is true then all will be full gold izzit not??

Some aros as they grow big....still retain some based colour i.e. blue/green or dark undeveloped based. A good example will be the 2002 pic I have posted on page 7. Other stopped at certain area while still retaining blue and thick framed....pls take a look at Legend 1 & II, Ever changing of Asian aro, many pics there.

In Legend I...its stated that some XB/red dun have framed....the development will spread inward towards the base of the fish....but NOWHERE is it stated that the BASED COLOUR OF THE FISH CHANGE!

Hey dun run away from the question I asked in earlier post...."So this pic of XB is thin framed then?? Even from young?" -

Originally Posted by john2gs

this is a very interesting topic! I read from page 1 to this very last one.

Thanks bro fong and bro vic......for trying to explain both of your sides in regards to these xbacks.

can somebody translate this chinese characters? so we can learn more

From wat I interpret the author of the book speaks about the rims as "1st scale frame" and the edge of the base color as the "2nd scale frame"...he/she states that if a juvenile gold display golden/orangey shine on the "1st scale frame", most of the time it will grow up to be a "thin frame gold",coloration or base color will exhibit more brilliantly, however there are also exceptions that these "thin frame gold" may grow up to be "thick frame gold" meaning to say the gold actually crosses the "2nd scale frame" to "eat" into the base color of the scale

1st scale frame = Gold Rim
2nd scale frame = edge of base color on the scale
Thin or thick = depends on whether the frame exceed the 2nd scale frame or not

[vic]

Originally Posted by fong

If I am not wrong, it mentioned 1st scale frame and 2nd scale frame, and also the base scale right ? So now you are saying beside the 1st Scale Frame, (which I believe is the scale frame I mentioned, now he invented a 2nd Scale Frame (i believe this is your so call widening of scale frame)? Maybe you should come out a book and mentioned about a third scale frame.... or maybe a fourth one.... I also got the book... but honestly I never read. So dont know exactly what else the book mentioned but from what you posted, it mentioned a 2nd scale frame.

More and more terminology liao. So now there are 2 scale frames loh. Also you ever read the legend book ?, it also mentioned thick frame aros is also call no frame aro boh? All these books all read before, for bedtime only, dont take it too seriously. .

Fong,

I hope u are not getting personnal in ur post. No where in this thread did I mentioned 2nd framed....its written in the books. I posted the chinese writing to prove that I did not come up with the theory...The wording "2nd frame" mentioned in the book is not the point (can argue about that in another thread)...more importaintly the pic let hobbyist here see for themselves that pioneers already used the term "thick and thin framed".

Thats the main point we are arguing...

Originally Posted by fong

When I read all these books, I just go for pictoral and see for myself, all these fanciful termology I leave it in the book. But I do enjoy the farm visit portion.

All this frame progression are just color formation. They just term it as they like. A frame is a structure. Not a representation of color. When ppl translate it into engllsh, it read SCALE FRAME, but if it just talking color separation, maybe should translate into SCALE COLOR BORDER.

These are just normal people like you and me. Dont think they have PHD of any sort to support their claim.

u cannot back up ur claim with ur so call "new base colour changing" theory and instead now questioning the authenticity of not one book but two??

I think u are confusing the hobbyist further with your own terminology....the above is something new from u again?? Why dun u stop using more new terms and answer the more relevant questions I posted to u namely:

1. Is the young xb pic I posted in page 7 thick or thin framed??
2. Can u back up any of the claim u mentioned here from any writing at all??

If the above is your own claim...I think u should at least declare it here so that hobbyist knows and can decide for themselves to believe it or not, rather than confuse them.

Thanks those brothers who have contributed. A very interesting sharing and exchange in deed. To me, this is what the forum is all about.

[vic]

Originally Posted by fong

I dont want to repeat all over again. I show u a clear pic. The pic shows where frame is. It did not widen. The gold cover over it as it progresses inwards. Also, if u look at RTG. Those with upper half scale no color and lower half scale got color region, u can see the frame quite easily. Those without gold color region the frame has a slight different tone from the base. The lower half color progresses inwards, the frame never thickens.

This aro u have posted is not a good example of how to judge if the frames have thicken or not...as

1. Fish is kept in a white environment as such based colour and frame is not clear
2. U did not post fish earlier or later pic to compare.

If u prefer to used RTG as an example of that...I can go find some pics to compare.